Jody King
Finding Happiness in Rocinha, Brazil's Largest Favela - Freo de Janeiro Ep. #1
Listen to this Episode:
Background:Jody King is an incredible dude. He moved from England to Brazil and is now living in the country’s largest favela, Rocinha in Rio de Janeiro. It’s an amazing community home to approximately 70,000 people in a small space along a steep hill. He has definitely adapted to life there.Jody started an English school called Favela Phoenix in Rocinha which is providing local students with an important ticket to greater economic opportunity.He has also been featured in a film called ‘Gringo Favelado’.Jody and I discuss:– What compelled him to make what was a seemingly drastic move from England to Rio– Learning Brazilian Portuguese– Practicalities of life in a community like Rocinha– Conducting tours for tourists to promote understanding of the favela and help raise funds for Favela Phoenix– Success stories at Favela Phoenix– Thoughts on the 2014 World Cup and 2016 Olympic legacies.
It was a great to hear Jody’s story.
Background:Jody King is an incredible dude. He moved from England to Brazil and is now living in the country’s largest favela, Rocinha in Rio de Janeiro. It’s an amazing community home to approximately 70,000 people in a small space along a steep hill. He has definitely adapted to life there.Jody started an English school called Favela Phoenix in Rocinha which is providing local students with an important ticket to greater economic opportunity.He has also been featured in a film called ‘Gringo Favelado’.Jody and I discuss:– What compelled him to make what was a seemingly drastic move from England to Rio– Learning Brazilian Portuguese– Practicalities of life in a community like Rocinha– Conducting tours for tourists to promote understanding of the favela and help raise funds for Favela Phoenix– Success stories at Favela Phoenix– Thoughts on the 2014 World Cup and 2016 Olympic legacies.
It was a great to hear Jody’s story.
Linkworthy items from this Episode:
- Follow Jody King & Favela Phoenix -> Instagram | Facebook | Twitter
- Favela Phoenix
- Educate The Favela (The awesome NGO organising the event where Jody and I met)
- About Rocinha
- About Vidigal
Full Transcript
This was transcribed and therefore might contain a few typos. With some long episodes, it's difficult to catch some minor errors. Enjoy!
Abid Imam:
Jody, welcome to Freo de Janeiro. It's an absolute pleasure to have you on. How you going?
Jody King: Very well. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Abid Imam:
So before we get into your story, I just want to start off with I'm how we met. We met at the Olympic Games in 2016. In Rio and Copacabana Beach. And we've stayed in touch. I've been able to follow your story since and I thought it will be absolutely brilliant to get you on. So I'm really excited and can't wait to hear what you have to say about your life. And I think it's really interesting.
Abid Imam: So before we get into your story, I just want to start off with I'm how we met and we met at the Olympic Games in 2016. In Rio and Copacabana Beach. And we've stayed in touch. I've been able to follow your story since and I thought it will be absolutely brilliant to get you on. So I'm really excited and can't wait to hear what you have to say about your life. And I think it's really interesting.
Jody King: Oh, sure. Awesome. Abid Imam: Let's start from the very beginning. I mean, where did you grow up and what was it like?
Jody King: I grew up in the southwest of England, a small little coastal town called Bude, very small little town. It's very, very nice there in the summer. There's beaches, but you know, the summer never really last very long. So I got fed up with life there pretty quickly, always wanted to live somewhere a little bit warmer. But yeah, that's where I grew up. A little corner of England.
Abid Imam: How much travel did you do early on in your life?
Jody King: Travel only really started traveling when I was about 25. And actually Australia was the first place I went to I traveled up and down the East Coast of Australia for six weeks after a relationship went south in England. I wanted to kind of get as far away from the problems in England as possible. So I went to Australia for six weeks and loved it and kind of got the travel bug and then I went to Italy a short time afterwards. Since then, you know since I've come to Brazil in in the last five years, you know I've managed to do quite a bit of traveling actually. A little bit in South America. India. I went to Tokyo and I travelled quite a lot around Europe last year as well actually, whilst I was doing fundraising event in Europe, I got to see quite a lot of Europe which was nice. So yeah, I I'd like to travel more, but you know, it's expensive. So it's I've certainly got the bug and I'd like to do it a lot more for sure.
Abid Imam: Amen to that. And back in Australia, where what parts of the East Coast Did you get to take in?
Jody King: Yeah, that's right. I was in Sydney, Brisbane, Cairns, Airlie Beach, Noosa, Byron Bay, Surfers Paradise, Newcastle. Where else? I took a road trip up to Cape Tribulation from Cairns you know, that went around the Daintree Rainforest out there. Yeah, I love it. I really love going up and down the East Coast of Australia. It's my first travel trip and Australia is always a good first one because there's no language barrier. It's well set up for travel up and down there. The hostels are a great standard. I really enjoyed it. I liked Australia a lot.
Abid Imam: And just like Brazil, it's a huge country. So for a person like me that lives in Perth, it's five hours from Melbourne and Sydney, so vast distances.
Jody King: That's right. Yeah. I'd like to get back and see some of the West Coast at some point. I mean, like I mentioned to you, my brother lives there. I'd love to get out there at some point and see a little bit more. Darwin's another place that interests me. Yeah, perhaps I'll get back over there at some point for sure.
Abid Imam: And how many siblings do you have? Going back to growing up in England? What was your family life there?
Jody King: So I've got one brother and one sister. They're both older. So I'm the baby. And we're all living in the far flung corners of the planet. My brother's in Australia, I'm in Brazil, of course, and my sister lives in the north of Canada. So, you know, my parents in England still, their three kids. You know, the four of us were in four different continents.
Abid Imam: Well at least you've got a place to stay everywhere they go pretty much.
Jody King: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, they've got some great holiday destinations. That's for sure.
Abid Imam: How you got to Brazil is a very fascinating story. I've been able to in the research for this, find out and listen to some of the podcasts or interviews you've done. Not podcasts, but the interviews and I understand you had a dream.
Jody King: That's right. It did stem from a dream. At the time I was depressed in England actually, I was heartbroken. Like I mentioned when I went to Australia, I was screwed over by an ex fiancé. I was with this girl for I think seven or eight years in England and we were engaged, we were planning a wedding together. We were trying to have a baby together. But she cheated on me, got pregnant with another guy and ran off with this other guy. So I was really heartbroken and I got depressed in England and stayed depressed for like a couple of years in England and my life was really just going nowhere. I was in like this hole. It was whilst I was very depressed that I had the dream actually. And yeah, all I could remember from the dream was overlooking a beach, a beautiful beach, you know, white sand, palm trees, blue sky, blue sea, very beautiful beach looking down on it. And when I woke up, I'd had this good feeling about the dream and I hadn't felt it for a long time, like feeling good inside, you know? Because I've been depressed, it felt really good. But there was a word stuck in my head, which was strange because I've never had that having woken up a word that I'd never heard of before. The word was Ipanema. And it kept repeating in my head over and over for a good couple of hours. What does this mean? And eventually I went onto the internet, put in Ipanema in Google and thought, what is this? And then saw, of course, what Ipanema was this, this neighborhood of Rio. It was beautiful with a beach of course, as well. And I thought, wow, this place looks incredible. So I've done a bit of research into Ipanema and Rio. I thought to myself, this is it. I need to go here; I can be happy again. If I go here, I'll be happy. And so I spent three months then after the dream, researching Rio. And I knew that I was going to like in Rio, I knew it was my kind of place and yet three months after the dream, I took a one-way flight to Rio and haven't looked back since.
Abid Imam: It's interesting that it's another seven letter word, not Ipanema but Rocinha, which is where you ended up.
Jody King: That's right. Yeah,
Abid Imam: very close, very close, as we see in Brazil, where the haves and have nots are located basically, within touching distance of each other. What was your, what was your perception of Brazil heading there for the first time? Do you remember that?
Jody King: Um, I was just, I just remember being very excited. I knew that it was what I needed. I needed to get out of England to kind of make a fresh start, get away from the source of the pain. And I just remember being very excited. You know, I didn't know anyone in real. I didn't speak the language. I didn't have a job lined up nothing, and the fact that I had to find all these new things, learn a new language, make new friends find a new job, find a place to stay. I just remember being very excited by it. I didn't feel daunted by it at all. It was it was just excitement. I knew, I really knew that I was making the right decision. It seemed like a crazy decision. But I knew that it was the right one. And you know, as soon as I stepped off the plane, I remember the depression left me or instantly as soon as I got in Rio. I almost like didn't really care and think about what I just been through for the last two years. And yeah, I just suddenly became happy in Rio and lived a much more positive life. So I just remember, the trip over being very excited and just looking forward to this, new start in Brazil.
Abid Imam: How did you make your way in those first few days? What were your connections then who helped you out? And then how did you end up making it to Rocinha for the first time?
Jody King: Okay, so my plan was to come to Rio and teach English because realistically, I thought that was the only way that I could earn money in a city where I don't speak the language. So I got qualified to teach English as a foreign language before I came over. And the plan was to stay in some cheap hostels and look for teaching English work, because I didn't actually come with that much money actually. So I had to knuckle down quickly. No, I didn't have time to party or anything like that. I wanted to try and find work quickly and get settled. So the plan was to stay in cheap hostels until I got a job. And on my sixth day in Rio I saw a hostel at the top of Vidigal favela with the most amazing view over over Leblon and Ipanema Beach, which is a coincidence, actually, because maybe the dream was a premonition, because I ended up living at this hostel. And the view was actually looking down over at the Ipanema Beach a little bit similar to the dream. So that was my first taste of life in a favela because I went to this hostel. I ended up liking it so much in the hostel, then booked to stay long term there and the owner of the hostel actually offered me a job. I didn't have any work at that time. So I thought sure, I'll do it. I need something. So I ended up working in the hostel and actually became manager of the place and stayed there for a year. So that got me into the favelas. And it was just because I was offered a job there. I really liked the place. I like this favela. The view was absolutely stunning. I got on very well with the owner who was from Austria, ended up DJ’ing at some of the parties up there because they also function as a Bar and Nightclub. So That really helped me find my feet in Rio and in the favelas. In fact, and I always had this connection with Rocinha because Rocinha the other side of the mountain from Vidigal, they're quite close to each other. And I used to come into Rocinha a lot to volunteer at a DJ school. Then when I was managing the hostel, I would take guests of the hostel from Vidigal, into Rocinha for tours and shopping and food, because the shops and the restaurants are fantastic in Rocinha. So I used to come to Rocinha a lot always had the connection and then having spent a year in Vidigal favela, a tour guide operator then offered me a job being a tour guide in Rocinha just before the World Cup started. So that's why I came to Rocinha then because I was offered a job as a tour guide and it sounded great. I was just starting to get a little bit bored of living in a hotel as well. I mean, it was a great location, it was great place to find my feet. But I think you can only really live in a hostel for a certain amount of time before it gets a bit. A bit too much, you know. So the job offer of a tour guide came really at the right time, then I came to Rocinha to live and be a tour guide him. Yeah, just before the World Cup started May/June 2014. And been here ever since.
Abid Imam: And to be a tour guide, he would need to know quite a bit about the community and field all the questions that the tourists would have. Yeah, how do you gather your knowledge and which sort of people we're connecting with in the communities to increase your knowledge bank?
Jody King: So I already know a few things of general life in a favela because I've been living in Vidigal, of course, but when I started becoming a tour guide in Rocinha, I went on seven or eight tours with the boss of this tour company. I went on tours with him took a notepad and pen, and was just basically writing down everything he was saying, all the little statistics and bits of information to the tourists just making a note of it and then looking over the notes, memorizing it. So that's how I got started. But I mean, you're learning all the time. Still, of course, the longer I've been a tour guide, you know, talking to people in the community about how their life was in the past. I'm always picking up new things, the longer I live here. I remember my first year being a tour guide, I couldn't always answer every question, maybe I could only answer 70-80% of the questions. But now I can certainly answer 100% of the questions because you know, I've heard so much about life in the favela before I moved here, what it used to be like in the past You know, so it's a constant learning curve really, because you're always hearing things about how the locals feel about living here and their life, their work. So, yeah, it's a constant learning curve, really. But yeah, I certainly know a lot now, that's for sure.
Abid Imam: You would have learned that through the language barrier, and I'm really interested in how people acquire languages. I'm very passionate about languages myself learning Portuguese over the last few years, and then now starting a bit of Russian. How did you go about learning Portuguese and tackling that challenge?
Jody King: Yeah, so it was a challenge that really appealed to me because I wanted to learn a new language that was another one of the attractions to coming to Rio. I knew I would have to learn a new language. I wanted that challenge. So It's been difficult. It's not an easy language to learn. And, you know, I didn't have any other second language to kind of go off because I know that the first second language anyone learns is always the hardest. And unfortunately, I didn't do a second language in school. I chose French but I was actually kicked out of it. I didn't pay attention. Now I wish I'd chosen Spanish and paid attention so it's been a challenge. When I started managing the hostel in Vidigal. I did take a four-week language course to get the basics of Portuguese. The rest of it I've just picked up as I've gone along on the street just talking to people. Messaging has been a good way of writing and learning as well. Yeah, I was picking up pretty slowly. In the beginning, I was fine. I was getting frustrated with myself at not being able to say everything that I wanted to be able to in Portuguese. It was quite a slow process, but what's really helped me actually really in the last two years now, is having a Brazilian girlfriend that doesn't speak English. We've been together two years and that's really accelerated my Portuguese in the last couple of years actually. So I'm almost fluent now. I'd like to think it's certainly getting there. Yeah, I can always say what I need to say and understand what's being said. But it was definitely a challenge, but certainly a challenge that I've enjoyed.
Abid Imam: Well, you know, the language of love is a universal language itself. So that's, that's a great one. Have you been able to travel around South America and utilize Spanish because it seems like Portuguese to Spanish is a really easy step?
Jody King: Yeah. So I spent three months in Colombia actually, about two or three years ago, and I was finding that I was picking up Spanish very Quickly in the in the three months in Colombia, because of the Portuguese, I know I was picking it up very quickly. So I decided that once at once I'm 100% fluent in Portuguese, I will definitely learn Spanish because, you know, it's more, you know, Spanish is used much more globally than Portuguese, a very useful language to speak, you know, especially in South America. So, yes, it's certainly much easier for me now to learn Spanish than it was learning Portuguese, that's for sure.
Abid Imam: I keep getting fascinated by your travels. But I must ask where in Colombia did you go? Because I'm a big fan of that country too.
Jody King: Okay. Yes. Beautiful isn't it. I've done a couple of work away stops there actually. So I was working in a hostel in Medellin for five weeks. So I stayed in Medellin for quite a long time, for five weeks and then I spent some time in Santa Marta, Cartagena, Bogota. I also got a work away job in a quite a small place at the foothills of the Sierra Nevada mountain range called Valledupar. So yeah, I never went to Cali though and I never went to that place, you know the river of the different color. I can't remember what it's called. There's a river in Colombia that has algae of different colors. There's a couple of spots that I didn't actually make it to still but, I really got to know Medellin especially very well. Also spent quite a long time in Santa Marta which was nice. Absolutely love Colombia now. Very similar to Brazil in way that you know, very friendly people. good food, good fruits, beautiful weather, hot, amazing. rain forests and greenery and animals. So Yeah, I really like it. They're very nice country.
Abid Imam: Jumping around back to the favela. You know, the common misconception is, how dangerous it is. And this notorious reputation. When somebody asks you, I'm sure you get questions about it quite a lot. But what is your sort of statement to represent the favelas and your experience there?
Jody King: Oh, yeah, everyone always thinks that the favelas are very, very dangerous, which is not true. Because I always say this to people, especially tourists that are coming towards me straightaway because some of them might feel a little bit uneasy, like they're going to be coming into a dangerous place. So I've always got to kind of reassure them and say, Look, it's not actually that dangerous. You know, if it was so dangerous for a start, I wouldn't live here. I choose to live here. If it was so dangerous, I would not live here and I do genuinely feel safer in the favela than I do in Copacabana, Ipanema, you know these touristy areas of Rio because in the favela crimes like robbery and assault do not happen. The criminals live here, absolutely, the thieves live here, but they do not commit these crimes in the favela. There's a very strict code. You know, if they want to rob someone they're specifically told go to Copacabana, go to Ipanema, rob the tourists, rob the wealthy people down there, which makes sense because that's where the money is. In the favela, it's such a strong community where people look out for one another, so much that they won't allow anything like this to happen. And if someone's caught robbing someone in the favela, the gang will chop their hand off and they'll be kicked out of the community. So you know, the punishment if you break one of the rules is pretty severe. And if you do something bad enough, you'll be killed for it. So nobody does break the rules here. So they go down to the wealthier areas to commit the petty crimes like robbery. So it's safer than people think. Of course there are gangs here and there is shootings that do occur here sometimes. So this is the danger. But saying that, the shootings always happen in certain areas of the favela. You know, Rocinha is so big. There's 26 subdivisions of Rocinha, 26 areas. Five of these 26 areas are conflict areas, just five. You know, whenever there's shootings between gang and police, it's always in these five areas. So I always reassure the tourists Look, I'm not going to take you to these five areas, we don't go there. So if that's shooting, if you hear gunshots, don't worry, it's not going to be near us. It's going to be over on the edges up over there and show them where it is and it's not near us. So, you know, thankfully where I've lived in Rocinha as well. My house has never been in an area where I've had a risk of a bullet coming in through the wall of my house, you know, a stray bullet? Unfortunately, I feel very sorry for the people that live in these areas of the favela where there is conflict because that is dangerous. And for them, of course, they're living in a dangerous area where the conflict is, and they have the risk of a stray bullet coming in into their house. So there are areas that I would consider dangerous, that I wouldn't want to live in, that's for sure where these five conflict areas are, there's no way I would live there. But you know, 60/70% of the favela, there's not this risk, and it's actually pretty peaceful. You know, it's peaceful 99% of the time here. The shootings, they occur maybe once or twice a week, but it's literally normally five or 10 minutes, and then it finishes and it's really strange because you know, something as serious as people trying to shoot each other. It's strange how life continues like normal, even when it's going on because the people in the area that it's not happening, although you can hear it, they continue like normal because they know that it's not a risk, it's kind of like a background noise, which seems very strange to someone like me or you from England and Australia where, you kind of just get used to hearing gunshots and it's not in your area just continue like normal and everything. Everything stays normal, which is which is quite strange I guess.
Abid Imam: It's interesting that you said people carry on because, I mean, there's been people that have surely been caught in crossfire. Has there been any instances of people that are close to you that have been harmed or injured or killed even?
Jody King: I have two of my friends been shot. One took a stray bullet in the shoulder. Quite a young guy who was working on the vans, the public vans that do a circular around the mountain you know from Rocinha to Leblon to Vidigal. He worked on these, he was always very friendly with me. Always spoke to him a lot on the vans and he took a stray bullet in the shoulder and was in hospital. Then another guy who I was good friends with and actually he's my neighbor here where I live at the top of Rocinha. He's a motor taxi driver. And he didn't stop at a police check. Police were checking that the motor taxis licenses, checking their documents. And he didn't stop for whatever reason, whether he was listening to music didn't see them or, or whatever. He didn't stop them. The police opened fire on him shot him and then run him over in a police car and he was very badly injured. He's actually had one of his feet amputated and he took a couple of bullets to the to the body, thankfully survived and you know, he's recovering but, that was quite shocking because I was quite close to him you know, unfortunately it can be a common occurrence in the favelas. The police shoot first and ask questions later you know, and they don't really care about who the bullets are hitting you know, they have very little regard for the people that live in the favelas, which is very sad. The police are feared more than the gang are really they're not like here at all. People tend to have more trust in the gang than they do with the police. Because actually the gang are a better police than the police are, because the gang have always been a police here. You know, the rules that I said before, about people not committing crimes in the favela, these are rules put in by the gang because the gang don't want crime happening in their place, they want peace. Because if someone's coming here getting robbed, getting assaulted, people aren't going to come and buy the drugs from the gang. So the gang have got their business to protect. So they do a better job than the police actually, and because they're from the community, they genuinely care about the community and the good of the community, whereas the police are not from here. So they don't really care about the people or the place, so actually the gang are more respected than the police are.
Abid Imam: And in terms of the peaceful times, how does the community sort of organize themselves with the things that, in our countries like Australia and England that we take for granted electricity, water, your bins, getting taken? How is that organized in a community like Rocinha?
Jody King: Well, these services like water, electricity, sewerage, they were put in by the community themselves. There was main electric wiring on the main road going through the middle, and then people would steal from the main road. I think we call it hooking in English, where you get your illegal feed, run it to your property down these alleyways here. And it's the same with the water in the past. And these sewage systems they built themselves. Actually the gang paid for a lot of some of this infrastructure, especially the sewage system, money that they made in the past from drug trafficking, they put into building a lot of the sewage systems and the steps in the alleyways. So they've helped a little bit in the past. And yet the community have done it themselves, which is what's so amazing about favelas. They've built a city within a city here. Rocinha's really is like a city. I mean, it's got everything you can possibly think of here. There's over 6000 businesses, you know, internet, everyone's got water, electricity. Everyone's got a sewerage system, you know, and they've done it themselves, which, I think is really incredible. Since the pacification in the favela, which came in November 2011 in Rocinha. The pacification is where the government have sent in the military police to patrols favelas. The idea was to get rid of the gangs and put military police in that place. It didn't work so well. The gangs are still here, but with that, the government are more active in the favela. So things like water, electricity, sewerage, trash collection. These are now government responsibilities now. So the gang have taken more of a backseat and the government are now responsible for the upkeep of the services in the favela. Did that answer your question? I can't remember what the question was. (laughs)
Abid Imam: Absolutely. Yeah, well, it is such a broad area when you're talking about government services and it's incredible with so many people there.
Jody King: That's right, they've done it all themselves. Which is really amazing because you know, a lot of people from favelas are ashamed to be from a favela, which I think is really sad. I think that people from a favela should be proud to be from a favela because what they've achieved is absolutely incredible. You know, you take away government help from a town where we're from, the town won't survive, they will fall apart, but here they have really built a self-sustaining community, which I think is really incredible. I think they should be, people from the falevas, should be proud, not ashamed.
Abid Imam: Has that shifted at all? Have you seen any change in that? I've heard of a lot more hostels and more tourists coming into favelas to see and understand it. Is it something that people are becoming more proud of? Or is it going backwards?
Jody King: And to be honest, I don't think there's much of a change really. Of course, during the World Cup and the Olympics, there was a kind of a spike of hostels being built and more tourism coming here but since the Olympics has finished, that's dropped again. Now, a lot of hostels have closed and that's not happening so much. I think the tours do help. For sure, because you know, we're spreading the good, we're showing the good side of the favela, which not a lot of people know. When people who have never been here before, think favela, the only really think negative things, violent crime. So on the tours, they're learning all these positive things about life in a favela. How hard working the people are. How amazing the food is here, how many businesses are here, the infrastructure, the internet. They learn all these things that they don't know. So, the tours help create a more positive outlook on the favelas from the outside world which definitely helps. But I know that people are still ashamed to be from a favela. But I think you know, this is down to the Brazilian government and wealthy Brazilians, who will always think very negatively of favelas and turn a blind eye to what's happening there. Or, the wealthy Brazilians don't help and the media doesn't help here and the government certainly doesn't help unfortunately. I always think that the work that I'm doing and the other tour guides here, we're really up against it trying to spread the good word of the favela because there's so much negative being put out on the TVs every single day by the media and stuff. So, it's hard, but you know, the people that come on the tours, they really do see the favela for what it is for the day. They always really, really enjoy it. They always love the place and a lot of them come back or even stay after the tour, because it is a very lovable place and a very misunderstood place. Which is why the tours are so important, actually, you know.
Abid Imam: I do love the Instagram photos you put on with each of the tour. The tourists that come out on your tour and you have Rocinha in the background, you're standing on the bridge. I sort of had to rub my eyes a few months ago when I saw that some of the famous footballers from the Australian Football League, Stephen Coniglio and Jon Patton were on one of your tours.
Jody King: That's right. Yeah, I didn't realize that they were famous or semi famous at the time. They told me that they played football, but I didn't really think too much of it. It was only after the tour that they followed Favela Phoenix on Instagram. So I followed them back and looked on their profile and realized that these guys had thousands and thousands of followers. And I realized then that they are actually pretty big footballers, which was great for the Favela Phoenix tour company because of course, they were posting photos of the tour on their social media, which of course thousands and thousands of people would have seen. So I remember I did have a couple of tourists come to me afterwards saying, Hey, we saw these guys come on a tour. They loved it, so we're coming on the tour. So I'm glad that they came because they certainly helped my project a little bit and got me a few more tourists.
Abid Imam: I'm really interested in where you stayed in particular have you always lived in the same dwelling in Rocinha or having you moved around? What's it like living at the top?
Jody King: I've moved around. I think I've lived in four different places. But I've always been at the top, in fact, in Vidigal favela I was at the top of there. I always seem to be at the top of the favelas. When I first came to Rocinha, I stayed with a friend to run a guesthouse and I stayed in his guest house for a couple of weeks, until I found an apartment which was a house share. And I went into the house share again, that was always going to be temporary until I found my own place. I wanted to take my time on finding my own place. Until I found the right place for me that I knew that I'd be happy to stay in for a very long time. So I ended up staying in the house for about two or three months. Then I found a beautiful two-bedroom place at the top again. But I then lived in for two and a half years. Great place. Nice big terraces with a nice fantastic view over the favela. I only moved from there actually to where I am now, because my school had to change locations, because the location my school was in, was being turned into a medical center. I had to find a new place in my school. I was then offered a building by a German guy who owns this beautiful big building at the highest part of Rocinha you can go to called Laborio, beautiful building, and he said "Look, I'm not living there. If you want your project there, you can have your project there and you can rent my apartment, you know the apartment's empty, rent the apartment and you can have your school underneath." So I thought you know it's fantastic because I'm living in the same building as my school now, which makes it so much easier to manage, so that's why I'm where I am now. I'm here now for about seven months.
Abid Imam: How does one purchase property in his Rocinha?
Jody King: It's actually pretty easy to purchase property. It's the same as anywhere now because, since the pacification in the favela, the best thing about it is that the people legally own their homes here now. So everyone has the deeds to their properties. So it's just like anywhere else in the world. You go through all the right paperwork to buy a place, and there's always a lot of places for sale and to rent here. People coming and going there's always a lot of movement, just like any other neighborhood. Some people change favelas a lot. You won't get many people leaving a favela and going to a nice neighborhood, but they certainly move favelas depending on their work or something. So houses become available quite a lot here actually, to rent and buy. And you go through the same process as you would anywhere else.
Abid Imam: You said that you've lived on the top, I'm just interested in accessibility, because of some of my own experiences going to a couple of different favelas within Rio de Janeiro, a couple of times when I've taken a taxi from the bottom, the taxi driver would not want to go to the top because of the amount of steepness and some of them just not willing to wear their cars on the cobblestone, so you have to take the motor taxi. How accessible is your place going up to the top?
Jody King: It's quite accessible. Actually, you can drive a car here which is rare. It's very rare to be able to drive the car to your place because most of it is alleyways and you can only get so near with a motorbike taxi. But my plate is pretty accessible actually. You can get here by car. I don't use a car, of course there's not much parking and cars are too expensive for me. I use the motor taxis everywhere and they're fantastic. They're good drivers. They get you for up and down pretty quickly. Yeah, the motor taxi will bring me like right outside my front door. So I always tend to walk down the favela when I need to get down, but I'll always take a motorbike taxi back up. There's no way I'm walking all the way up because it's a very difficult work.
Abid Imam: Definitely a good way to get the strong legs. I wanted to talk about your school and Favela Phoenix. How much does it mean to you and how did you conceive that idea and project?
Jody King: Well, I got the idea for the school when I went back to England for Christmas 2014, until January 2015. I was I was in my hometown. And it was one of my best friends actually in my hometown that gave me the idea. He said, "Look, why don't you start a project in the favela, because if you do, I will sponsor you each month. I'll give you a little bit of money each month to run a project." And he made me realize that it would be quite easy to find some sponsorships if I had a project there. And I thought it was a great idea. So I came back to Rio in January 2015. Planned the school and it took nine months to open. Initially, I remember I wanted to do a trade school because I used to work in construction in England. So something that I knew a bit about, but I realized that it would be too much hard work, too expensive to start a trade school and very difficult to find teachers to teach. So the next obvious thing was an English school. You know, it's very easy to set up, it's very easy to find teachers. Travelers that want to volunteer and teach. And it's important, you know, it's something that is very needed in Rio. So it took nine months to find a location, find equipment materials, find a teacher, find some students, and get it running. We opened in September 2015. 16 students to begin with one class a day. And it's slowly been growing over the last two and a half years now. Now we have over 100 students in three classes a day, children and adults. It's very popular in the community. One term last four months and every time a new term begins, it's always very full of classes, especially the beginner classes are very, very full because people want to learn it. The people here have a good drive and determination, they don't get a lot of opportunities of education, you know. The public school system here is not good. So they're not learning languages in public school. They don't learn geography, they don't learn history in the public schools. They're missing a lot of key subjects. So, any extra education that you can provide these people, they will snap it with both hands. They will take it because they know they need the opportunities to succeed and the people here want to better their lives you know, they want to work and get better jobs and become successful. So, yeah, my school is very popular now. They want to learn English.
Abid Imam: Are there any particular success stories that you've seen over the last few years that really stick out to you?
Jody King: Um, there's been a couple. There's been a lot of people actually that got jobs because they've learned English in my school. There was one girl that got a promotion, she already had a job, but she wanted this promotion. To get the promotion she had to speak English. She came to Favela Phoenix learned English and got the promotion and is now earning twice as much money. So yeah, I know of a lot of people that have that have gotten jobs because they've learned English as well. You know, it really is working for people. Yeah, which is which is fantastic to see, you know, really, really pleasing for me to see this.
Abid Imam: How are you sort of getting Favela Phoenix to take the next step now? I hear that there's some really fancy sort of fundraising. I just heard somewhere that was Amazon kayaking, is that true?
Jody King: Yeah, that's right. Well, that's not happening anymore. Actually, I planned on kayaking on the Amazon. I think I was planning on doing it next year. No, I was planning on doing it this year. But actually, I realized that I couldn't afford it because we would have had to have paid for a guide and that this trip would have been very, very expensive and I personally wouldn't have been able to afford it. But it's certainly something that I plan on doing in the future. You know, I plan on doing some fundraising events, but you know, anything like that is quite costly. I don't earn a lot of money, so I've got to do something within my budget. What I'll probably do this year is a Spartan Race. Something that's happening in Rio, it's 100 reais to enter. It's a crazy race with a lot of obstacles and I quite like this kind of thing. So I've done this before for to raise money, and I'll probably do this again this year. Last year, I cycled the river Danube through Europe, in Germany, through Austria, through Slovakia and ended in, in Hungary in Budapest with a few friends. I've done that with and that was fantastic. That raised a lot of money for the project. You know, as there's a team of us, we're all reaching out to our contacts, different people, and collectively it raised a really fantastic sum of money for the school. But of course, I can't do a big trip like this all the time. I can only work within my budget. But the kayaking on the Amazon is certainly something that that I will do in the future. For sure, these fundraising events, you know, it's fun for me because I get to travel, I get to keep fit. I like keeping fit, you know, cycling, kayaking. It's something that I enjoy doing, and it's hugely beneficial to my project. So it's really that big win-win situation. And I want to try and do one every year, for sure.
Abid Imam: Your team at Favela Phoenix, where do they hail from? Where do they come from around the world to help the people living in Rocinha?
Jody King: So we've got two long term teachers. Right now they're both girls, from one's from Switzerland and one's from Sweden. they've both been English teachers for a long time. They've got a lot of experience. And they live in here as well. They're both living in Rocinha. They love it here. We had another teacher from Switzerland in the past in fact, and we've used a lot of volunteers as well, from really all over the world. from Europe, from Asia, we've had volunteers from Australia, North America. Yeah, they're really from everywhere but our team right now is these two girls from Switzerland and Sweden teaching classes now. My dad helps a lot as well actually, from England because it's a UK based charity. So our bank account is based in England. My dad is the treasurer. He's in charge of the finances, which is fantastic for me because I would really hate to try and keep on top of that. He does that from England, which really helps me a lot. He's a big part of the team and works from England.
Abid Imam: How can people help you is it? Can they send things or is it purely financial assistance? What is going to help Favela Phoenix stay sustainable at this point in time?
Jody King: Yeah people can help in different ways really. Of course, coming on tours helps because 40% of the money from the tours goes straight into the school. Some people that come on tours, do bring some supplies. Some pens or workbooks or something. And financially, you know, we do have links on the website where people can make one off payments, or where people can set up monthly payments, sponsoring the fundraising events that come around once a year. So there's a few ways that people help
Abid Imam: These young people that you're helping teach and transform their lives, what have they actually taught you and your team in your life, how have they inspired you to continue?
Jody King: Um, yeah, just seeing how popular it is. inspires me because I know it's the right thing, because there's, there's a big demand for it. Like I mentioned, these people have a lot of drive and determination to learn, which inspires me to continue the project because I know it's the right thing. It's what the community needs. So it's very easy for me to have the inspiration here because it's all around you know. The people are very friendly. They're very thankful of what I'm doing. The project is popular. So yeah, I'm certainly inspired to continue the project.
Abid Imam: On the World Cup in the Olympics, which were multibillion dollar events put on at a time where it was politically very sensitive in Brazil. How has that legacy played out? And how has it inspired the next generation of leaders in the country and young people coming through?
Jody King: Actually, another attraction to me coming to Rio in 2013 was the World Cup and the Olympics coming here because I knew it'd be exciting time to live here. I love these events, especially the World Cup. And I loved here being here for it, absolutely loved it. But you know, the I don't think they should have been held here because it hasn't done the city any good. I mean, especially the Olympics, the state of Rio went bankrupt after the Olympics, which led to a lot of problems here in Rio, especially security problems, which led to a lot of violence. High levels of crime and violence, especially in the favela since the Olympics fully finished. I don't think these events have left anything positive behind in Rio. I don't think these events should be held in countries where they don't already have the infrastructure in place. Because when they're having to spend billions suddenly on these things, you know it that leads to so many problems. I've seen this afterwards. I don't think they should have happened here. As much as I enjoyed actually, being here during the event, the lasting effect is nothing positive actually, especially for the people in the favelas. They're the ones that really need this money to be spent in the right places on things like education, on health, basic sanitation, basic things, that places need. All these billions is being spent on these beautiful stadiums, which are now not being used at all. The money should be put in somewhere much better, that could really do so much good for not just the favelas, but the whole country you know. Living in the favelas and speaking to a lot of people, I've seen the frustration of what these events have brought. Which I completely understand from the favelas point of view.
Abid Imam: That increase in violence really reached a tipping point A few months ago, with the military of Rio taking control of security and police. How's that played out?
Jody King: Yeah, that's one of the lasting effects from the Olympics, because the state went bankrupt. They couldn't afford to pay the police or the pacifying police. So suddenly that a lot of police disappeared in Rio, which the gangs took advantage of. So the gangs suddenly become very visual. They were coming out in places that they weren't normally coming to before. They were normally staying pretty hidden but now they're not. The gangs are much more aggressive in coming out. It's just led to a lot more confrontations between police and gang. The violence has really spiked. Here in Rocinha we had a turf war in September 2017 because the police disappeared. So a rival gang took advantage of that. And then took over Rocinha. Hundreds of them arrived one day in the cars heavily armed and this community became a warzone. My school had to stay shut for six weeks. I couldn't do tours for six weeks. The places are so dangerous. It really was a war zone. The army came in here twice. At one point I walked down the main street of Rocinha and counted 12 tanks. It was really crazy, you know, and since then the violence has stayed very continuous. Happening all the time unfortunately. Much more than it was before September 2017 when this rival gang took over, which is sad to see you know because nobody likes this happening although the people are used to it, nobody likes this happening. More people are being killed in this. These young guys, the gang members, these are young guys aged 16 to 22 although they're gang members, it's terrible that they're being killed at a young age. A lot of these guys don't want to be gang members, they're doing it because they're poorly educated. They can't find any other work because of lack of opportunities here. They join a gang as a last resort. It's sad because the violence has spiked, especially in Rocinha which is frustrating for everyone and it's sad to see
Abid Imam: I am very mindful of your time. Firstly, we'll have a few more questions, Jodi as that's not a nice point to finish on. I wonder how your family feel about you being so far away and you being where you are. Have they come visited a few times. And how's that connection still going?
Jody King: Yes, they have. My parents have been here twice, and they're actually coming again in July. My sister is coming from Canada in July, and that'll be here first time here. They're happy that I'm here in Rio, because of what I went through in England with my ex fiancé. They knew that I was very depressed at the time and that I needed something. I needed to change my life and I needed to find happiness, which I really have found in Rio. I'm very, very happy, so they're happy that I'm happy. I think since September, and since the violence has spiked in the favela, I think they do worry more about me living in the favelas since September, because I do post news articles and I do post the occasional video of the sound of gunshots from my window, which gets my family a little bit worried. But they know that I'm happy they know that I'm not in any immediate danger, they know that the guns don't get pointed at me. I don't feel in danger here. And I think my family trust that I'm safe. I feel safe here. I'm pretty sure that I'm not going to go to any of these areas and I'm not going to get a stray bullet or anything like that. I've reassured my family that and I think they trust that. So they're happy that I'm here. They know that I'm helping the community a lot. They're very supportive of what I'm doing, my parents and my sister that they're giving money monthly to my project. They're very, very supportive. And yeah, they're happy with what I'm doing. They're happy that I'm happy.
Abid Imam: And lastly, what's it like going back home to England? Or if you call it home? But what's it like? What was it like going back the first time and seeing your friends and having that direct contrast?
Jody King: That's right. Yeah, it's actually very strange going back. It's like reverse culture shock, I believe it's called. I do get a culture shock going back to England now because I'm so used to life in Brazil now and the lifestyle of Brazil. But actually, I love going back, especially the last time I went back, because I went back with my girlfriend and it was her first trip outside of Brazil. It was fantastic being with her because of course, you know, everything's amazing to her, the food, the architecture, the way people behave, all these little things. I love going back because I forget how good the food is in England. The quality of food is fantastic there, it's great seeing friends and family again of course. And you know, even the little town that I'm from, when I lived there, it was always like the same thing every day. Nothing ever changed and it was kind of a boring life there in a small little town. Now when I go back once every two or three years it always seems to have changed a lot. I noticed a lot of changes, so it's always great going back and I do enjoy it. It's like a tourist in my own hometown again, you know, I do the touristy things and I enjoy going back for sure. Reverse culture shock. I prefer the culture of Brazil. I'm very happy. I love the lifestyle but you know, I always like going back and seeing friends and family and tasting those English foods again. It's nice.
Abid Imam: Well Jody, this has been nice. It's been it's been really, really interesting to talk to you and how can people find you on the interwebs? What are the links on the social medias that people should go and check out?
Jody King The social media you can find my project @FavelaPhoenix. All one word. Our website is www.favela phoenix.org where you can find more information about the tours and the project. Yeah, that's it. Look us up.
Abid Imam: Mate Absolute pleasure and hope we get to cross paths again.
Jody King: Pleasure talking to you. Thanks for thanks for inviting me. It's been a pleasure talking to you.
Jody King: Oh, sure. Awesome. Abid Imam: Let's start from the very beginning. I mean, where did you grow up and what was it like?
Jody King: I grew up in the southwest of England, a small little coastal town called Bude, very small little town. It's very, very nice there in the summer. There's beaches, but you know, the summer never really last very long. So I got fed up with life there pretty quickly, always wanted to live somewhere a little bit warmer. But yeah, that's where I grew up. A little corner of England.
Abid Imam: How much travel did you do early on in your life?
Jody King: Travel only really started traveling when I was about 25. And actually Australia was the first place I went to I traveled up and down the East Coast of Australia for six weeks after a relationship went south in England. I wanted to kind of get as far away from the problems in England as possible. So I went to Australia for six weeks and loved it and kind of got the travel bug and then I went to Italy a short time afterwards. Since then, you know since I've come to Brazil in in the last five years, you know I've managed to do quite a bit of traveling actually. A little bit in South America. India. I went to Tokyo and I travelled quite a lot around Europe last year as well actually, whilst I was doing fundraising event in Europe, I got to see quite a lot of Europe which was nice. So yeah, I I'd like to travel more, but you know, it's expensive. So it's I've certainly got the bug and I'd like to do it a lot more for sure.
Abid Imam: Amen to that. And back in Australia, where what parts of the East Coast Did you get to take in?
Jody King: Yeah, that's right. I was in Sydney, Brisbane, Cairns, Airlie Beach, Noosa, Byron Bay, Surfers Paradise, Newcastle. Where else? I took a road trip up to Cape Tribulation from Cairns you know, that went around the Daintree Rainforest out there. Yeah, I love it. I really love going up and down the East Coast of Australia. It's my first travel trip and Australia is always a good first one because there's no language barrier. It's well set up for travel up and down there. The hostels are a great standard. I really enjoyed it. I liked Australia a lot.
Abid Imam: And just like Brazil, it's a huge country. So for a person like me that lives in Perth, it's five hours from Melbourne and Sydney, so vast distances.
Jody King: That's right. Yeah. I'd like to get back and see some of the West Coast at some point. I mean, like I mentioned to you, my brother lives there. I'd love to get out there at some point and see a little bit more. Darwin's another place that interests me. Yeah, perhaps I'll get back over there at some point for sure.
Abid Imam: And how many siblings do you have? Going back to growing up in England? What was your family life there?
Jody King: So I've got one brother and one sister. They're both older. So I'm the baby. And we're all living in the far flung corners of the planet. My brother's in Australia, I'm in Brazil, of course, and my sister lives in the north of Canada. So, you know, my parents in England still, their three kids. You know, the four of us were in four different continents.
Abid Imam: Well at least you've got a place to stay everywhere they go pretty much.
Jody King: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, they've got some great holiday destinations. That's for sure.
Abid Imam: How you got to Brazil is a very fascinating story. I've been able to in the research for this, find out and listen to some of the podcasts or interviews you've done. Not podcasts, but the interviews and I understand you had a dream.
Jody King: That's right. It did stem from a dream. At the time I was depressed in England actually, I was heartbroken. Like I mentioned when I went to Australia, I was screwed over by an ex fiancé. I was with this girl for I think seven or eight years in England and we were engaged, we were planning a wedding together. We were trying to have a baby together. But she cheated on me, got pregnant with another guy and ran off with this other guy. So I was really heartbroken and I got depressed in England and stayed depressed for like a couple of years in England and my life was really just going nowhere. I was in like this hole. It was whilst I was very depressed that I had the dream actually. And yeah, all I could remember from the dream was overlooking a beach, a beautiful beach, you know, white sand, palm trees, blue sky, blue sea, very beautiful beach looking down on it. And when I woke up, I'd had this good feeling about the dream and I hadn't felt it for a long time, like feeling good inside, you know? Because I've been depressed, it felt really good. But there was a word stuck in my head, which was strange because I've never had that having woken up a word that I'd never heard of before. The word was Ipanema. And it kept repeating in my head over and over for a good couple of hours. What does this mean? And eventually I went onto the internet, put in Ipanema in Google and thought, what is this? And then saw, of course, what Ipanema was this, this neighborhood of Rio. It was beautiful with a beach of course, as well. And I thought, wow, this place looks incredible. So I've done a bit of research into Ipanema and Rio. I thought to myself, this is it. I need to go here; I can be happy again. If I go here, I'll be happy. And so I spent three months then after the dream, researching Rio. And I knew that I was going to like in Rio, I knew it was my kind of place and yet three months after the dream, I took a one-way flight to Rio and haven't looked back since.
Abid Imam: It's interesting that it's another seven letter word, not Ipanema but Rocinha, which is where you ended up.
Jody King: That's right. Yeah,
Abid Imam: very close, very close, as we see in Brazil, where the haves and have nots are located basically, within touching distance of each other. What was your, what was your perception of Brazil heading there for the first time? Do you remember that?
Jody King: Um, I was just, I just remember being very excited. I knew that it was what I needed. I needed to get out of England to kind of make a fresh start, get away from the source of the pain. And I just remember being very excited. You know, I didn't know anyone in real. I didn't speak the language. I didn't have a job lined up nothing, and the fact that I had to find all these new things, learn a new language, make new friends find a new job, find a place to stay. I just remember being very excited by it. I didn't feel daunted by it at all. It was it was just excitement. I knew, I really knew that I was making the right decision. It seemed like a crazy decision. But I knew that it was the right one. And you know, as soon as I stepped off the plane, I remember the depression left me or instantly as soon as I got in Rio. I almost like didn't really care and think about what I just been through for the last two years. And yeah, I just suddenly became happy in Rio and lived a much more positive life. So I just remember, the trip over being very excited and just looking forward to this, new start in Brazil.
Abid Imam: How did you make your way in those first few days? What were your connections then who helped you out? And then how did you end up making it to Rocinha for the first time?
Jody King: Okay, so my plan was to come to Rio and teach English because realistically, I thought that was the only way that I could earn money in a city where I don't speak the language. So I got qualified to teach English as a foreign language before I came over. And the plan was to stay in some cheap hostels and look for teaching English work, because I didn't actually come with that much money actually. So I had to knuckle down quickly. No, I didn't have time to party or anything like that. I wanted to try and find work quickly and get settled. So the plan was to stay in cheap hostels until I got a job. And on my sixth day in Rio I saw a hostel at the top of Vidigal favela with the most amazing view over over Leblon and Ipanema Beach, which is a coincidence, actually, because maybe the dream was a premonition, because I ended up living at this hostel. And the view was actually looking down over at the Ipanema Beach a little bit similar to the dream. So that was my first taste of life in a favela because I went to this hostel. I ended up liking it so much in the hostel, then booked to stay long term there and the owner of the hostel actually offered me a job. I didn't have any work at that time. So I thought sure, I'll do it. I need something. So I ended up working in the hostel and actually became manager of the place and stayed there for a year. So that got me into the favelas. And it was just because I was offered a job there. I really liked the place. I like this favela. The view was absolutely stunning. I got on very well with the owner who was from Austria, ended up DJ’ing at some of the parties up there because they also function as a Bar and Nightclub. So That really helped me find my feet in Rio and in the favelas. In fact, and I always had this connection with Rocinha because Rocinha the other side of the mountain from Vidigal, they're quite close to each other. And I used to come into Rocinha a lot to volunteer at a DJ school. Then when I was managing the hostel, I would take guests of the hostel from Vidigal, into Rocinha for tours and shopping and food, because the shops and the restaurants are fantastic in Rocinha. So I used to come to Rocinha a lot always had the connection and then having spent a year in Vidigal favela, a tour guide operator then offered me a job being a tour guide in Rocinha just before the World Cup started. So that's why I came to Rocinha then because I was offered a job as a tour guide and it sounded great. I was just starting to get a little bit bored of living in a hotel as well. I mean, it was a great location, it was great place to find my feet. But I think you can only really live in a hostel for a certain amount of time before it gets a bit. A bit too much, you know. So the job offer of a tour guide came really at the right time, then I came to Rocinha to live and be a tour guide him. Yeah, just before the World Cup started May/June 2014. And been here ever since.
Abid Imam: And to be a tour guide, he would need to know quite a bit about the community and field all the questions that the tourists would have. Yeah, how do you gather your knowledge and which sort of people we're connecting with in the communities to increase your knowledge bank?
Jody King: So I already know a few things of general life in a favela because I've been living in Vidigal, of course, but when I started becoming a tour guide in Rocinha, I went on seven or eight tours with the boss of this tour company. I went on tours with him took a notepad and pen, and was just basically writing down everything he was saying, all the little statistics and bits of information to the tourists just making a note of it and then looking over the notes, memorizing it. So that's how I got started. But I mean, you're learning all the time. Still, of course, the longer I've been a tour guide, you know, talking to people in the community about how their life was in the past. I'm always picking up new things, the longer I live here. I remember my first year being a tour guide, I couldn't always answer every question, maybe I could only answer 70-80% of the questions. But now I can certainly answer 100% of the questions because you know, I've heard so much about life in the favela before I moved here, what it used to be like in the past You know, so it's a constant learning curve really, because you're always hearing things about how the locals feel about living here and their life, their work. So, yeah, it's a constant learning curve, really. But yeah, I certainly know a lot now, that's for sure.
Abid Imam: You would have learned that through the language barrier, and I'm really interested in how people acquire languages. I'm very passionate about languages myself learning Portuguese over the last few years, and then now starting a bit of Russian. How did you go about learning Portuguese and tackling that challenge?
Jody King: Yeah, so it was a challenge that really appealed to me because I wanted to learn a new language that was another one of the attractions to coming to Rio. I knew I would have to learn a new language. I wanted that challenge. So It's been difficult. It's not an easy language to learn. And, you know, I didn't have any other second language to kind of go off because I know that the first second language anyone learns is always the hardest. And unfortunately, I didn't do a second language in school. I chose French but I was actually kicked out of it. I didn't pay attention. Now I wish I'd chosen Spanish and paid attention so it's been a challenge. When I started managing the hostel in Vidigal. I did take a four-week language course to get the basics of Portuguese. The rest of it I've just picked up as I've gone along on the street just talking to people. Messaging has been a good way of writing and learning as well. Yeah, I was picking up pretty slowly. In the beginning, I was fine. I was getting frustrated with myself at not being able to say everything that I wanted to be able to in Portuguese. It was quite a slow process, but what's really helped me actually really in the last two years now, is having a Brazilian girlfriend that doesn't speak English. We've been together two years and that's really accelerated my Portuguese in the last couple of years actually. So I'm almost fluent now. I'd like to think it's certainly getting there. Yeah, I can always say what I need to say and understand what's being said. But it was definitely a challenge, but certainly a challenge that I've enjoyed.
Abid Imam: Well, you know, the language of love is a universal language itself. So that's, that's a great one. Have you been able to travel around South America and utilize Spanish because it seems like Portuguese to Spanish is a really easy step?
Jody King: Yeah. So I spent three months in Colombia actually, about two or three years ago, and I was finding that I was picking up Spanish very Quickly in the in the three months in Colombia, because of the Portuguese, I know I was picking it up very quickly. So I decided that once at once I'm 100% fluent in Portuguese, I will definitely learn Spanish because, you know, it's more, you know, Spanish is used much more globally than Portuguese, a very useful language to speak, you know, especially in South America. So, yes, it's certainly much easier for me now to learn Spanish than it was learning Portuguese, that's for sure.
Abid Imam: I keep getting fascinated by your travels. But I must ask where in Colombia did you go? Because I'm a big fan of that country too.
Jody King: Okay. Yes. Beautiful isn't it. I've done a couple of work away stops there actually. So I was working in a hostel in Medellin for five weeks. So I stayed in Medellin for quite a long time, for five weeks and then I spent some time in Santa Marta, Cartagena, Bogota. I also got a work away job in a quite a small place at the foothills of the Sierra Nevada mountain range called Valledupar. So yeah, I never went to Cali though and I never went to that place, you know the river of the different color. I can't remember what it's called. There's a river in Colombia that has algae of different colors. There's a couple of spots that I didn't actually make it to still but, I really got to know Medellin especially very well. Also spent quite a long time in Santa Marta which was nice. Absolutely love Colombia now. Very similar to Brazil in way that you know, very friendly people. good food, good fruits, beautiful weather, hot, amazing. rain forests and greenery and animals. So Yeah, I really like it. They're very nice country.
Abid Imam: Jumping around back to the favela. You know, the common misconception is, how dangerous it is. And this notorious reputation. When somebody asks you, I'm sure you get questions about it quite a lot. But what is your sort of statement to represent the favelas and your experience there?
Jody King: Oh, yeah, everyone always thinks that the favelas are very, very dangerous, which is not true. Because I always say this to people, especially tourists that are coming towards me straightaway because some of them might feel a little bit uneasy, like they're going to be coming into a dangerous place. So I've always got to kind of reassure them and say, Look, it's not actually that dangerous. You know, if it was so dangerous for a start, I wouldn't live here. I choose to live here. If it was so dangerous, I would not live here and I do genuinely feel safer in the favela than I do in Copacabana, Ipanema, you know these touristy areas of Rio because in the favela crimes like robbery and assault do not happen. The criminals live here, absolutely, the thieves live here, but they do not commit these crimes in the favela. There's a very strict code. You know, if they want to rob someone they're specifically told go to Copacabana, go to Ipanema, rob the tourists, rob the wealthy people down there, which makes sense because that's where the money is. In the favela, it's such a strong community where people look out for one another, so much that they won't allow anything like this to happen. And if someone's caught robbing someone in the favela, the gang will chop their hand off and they'll be kicked out of the community. So you know, the punishment if you break one of the rules is pretty severe. And if you do something bad enough, you'll be killed for it. So nobody does break the rules here. So they go down to the wealthier areas to commit the petty crimes like robbery. So it's safer than people think. Of course there are gangs here and there is shootings that do occur here sometimes. So this is the danger. But saying that, the shootings always happen in certain areas of the favela. You know, Rocinha is so big. There's 26 subdivisions of Rocinha, 26 areas. Five of these 26 areas are conflict areas, just five. You know, whenever there's shootings between gang and police, it's always in these five areas. So I always reassure the tourists Look, I'm not going to take you to these five areas, we don't go there. So if that's shooting, if you hear gunshots, don't worry, it's not going to be near us. It's going to be over on the edges up over there and show them where it is and it's not near us. So, you know, thankfully where I've lived in Rocinha as well. My house has never been in an area where I've had a risk of a bullet coming in through the wall of my house, you know, a stray bullet? Unfortunately, I feel very sorry for the people that live in these areas of the favela where there is conflict because that is dangerous. And for them, of course, they're living in a dangerous area where the conflict is, and they have the risk of a stray bullet coming in into their house. So there are areas that I would consider dangerous, that I wouldn't want to live in, that's for sure where these five conflict areas are, there's no way I would live there. But you know, 60/70% of the favela, there's not this risk, and it's actually pretty peaceful. You know, it's peaceful 99% of the time here. The shootings, they occur maybe once or twice a week, but it's literally normally five or 10 minutes, and then it finishes and it's really strange because you know, something as serious as people trying to shoot each other. It's strange how life continues like normal, even when it's going on because the people in the area that it's not happening, although you can hear it, they continue like normal because they know that it's not a risk, it's kind of like a background noise, which seems very strange to someone like me or you from England and Australia where, you kind of just get used to hearing gunshots and it's not in your area just continue like normal and everything. Everything stays normal, which is which is quite strange I guess.
Abid Imam: It's interesting that you said people carry on because, I mean, there's been people that have surely been caught in crossfire. Has there been any instances of people that are close to you that have been harmed or injured or killed even?
Jody King: I have two of my friends been shot. One took a stray bullet in the shoulder. Quite a young guy who was working on the vans, the public vans that do a circular around the mountain you know from Rocinha to Leblon to Vidigal. He worked on these, he was always very friendly with me. Always spoke to him a lot on the vans and he took a stray bullet in the shoulder and was in hospital. Then another guy who I was good friends with and actually he's my neighbor here where I live at the top of Rocinha. He's a motor taxi driver. And he didn't stop at a police check. Police were checking that the motor taxis licenses, checking their documents. And he didn't stop for whatever reason, whether he was listening to music didn't see them or, or whatever. He didn't stop them. The police opened fire on him shot him and then run him over in a police car and he was very badly injured. He's actually had one of his feet amputated and he took a couple of bullets to the to the body, thankfully survived and you know, he's recovering but, that was quite shocking because I was quite close to him you know, unfortunately it can be a common occurrence in the favelas. The police shoot first and ask questions later you know, and they don't really care about who the bullets are hitting you know, they have very little regard for the people that live in the favelas, which is very sad. The police are feared more than the gang are really they're not like here at all. People tend to have more trust in the gang than they do with the police. Because actually the gang are a better police than the police are, because the gang have always been a police here. You know, the rules that I said before, about people not committing crimes in the favela, these are rules put in by the gang because the gang don't want crime happening in their place, they want peace. Because if someone's coming here getting robbed, getting assaulted, people aren't going to come and buy the drugs from the gang. So the gang have got their business to protect. So they do a better job than the police actually, and because they're from the community, they genuinely care about the community and the good of the community, whereas the police are not from here. So they don't really care about the people or the place, so actually the gang are more respected than the police are.
Abid Imam: And in terms of the peaceful times, how does the community sort of organize themselves with the things that, in our countries like Australia and England that we take for granted electricity, water, your bins, getting taken? How is that organized in a community like Rocinha?
Jody King: Well, these services like water, electricity, sewerage, they were put in by the community themselves. There was main electric wiring on the main road going through the middle, and then people would steal from the main road. I think we call it hooking in English, where you get your illegal feed, run it to your property down these alleyways here. And it's the same with the water in the past. And these sewage systems they built themselves. Actually the gang paid for a lot of some of this infrastructure, especially the sewage system, money that they made in the past from drug trafficking, they put into building a lot of the sewage systems and the steps in the alleyways. So they've helped a little bit in the past. And yet the community have done it themselves, which is what's so amazing about favelas. They've built a city within a city here. Rocinha's really is like a city. I mean, it's got everything you can possibly think of here. There's over 6000 businesses, you know, internet, everyone's got water, electricity. Everyone's got a sewerage system, you know, and they've done it themselves, which, I think is really incredible. Since the pacification in the favela, which came in November 2011 in Rocinha. The pacification is where the government have sent in the military police to patrols favelas. The idea was to get rid of the gangs and put military police in that place. It didn't work so well. The gangs are still here, but with that, the government are more active in the favela. So things like water, electricity, sewerage, trash collection. These are now government responsibilities now. So the gang have taken more of a backseat and the government are now responsible for the upkeep of the services in the favela. Did that answer your question? I can't remember what the question was. (laughs)
Abid Imam: Absolutely. Yeah, well, it is such a broad area when you're talking about government services and it's incredible with so many people there.
Jody King: That's right, they've done it all themselves. Which is really amazing because you know, a lot of people from favelas are ashamed to be from a favela, which I think is really sad. I think that people from a favela should be proud to be from a favela because what they've achieved is absolutely incredible. You know, you take away government help from a town where we're from, the town won't survive, they will fall apart, but here they have really built a self-sustaining community, which I think is really incredible. I think they should be, people from the falevas, should be proud, not ashamed.
Abid Imam: Has that shifted at all? Have you seen any change in that? I've heard of a lot more hostels and more tourists coming into favelas to see and understand it. Is it something that people are becoming more proud of? Or is it going backwards?
Jody King: And to be honest, I don't think there's much of a change really. Of course, during the World Cup and the Olympics, there was a kind of a spike of hostels being built and more tourism coming here but since the Olympics has finished, that's dropped again. Now, a lot of hostels have closed and that's not happening so much. I think the tours do help. For sure, because you know, we're spreading the good, we're showing the good side of the favela, which not a lot of people know. When people who have never been here before, think favela, the only really think negative things, violent crime. So on the tours, they're learning all these positive things about life in a favela. How hard working the people are. How amazing the food is here, how many businesses are here, the infrastructure, the internet. They learn all these things that they don't know. So, the tours help create a more positive outlook on the favelas from the outside world which definitely helps. But I know that people are still ashamed to be from a favela. But I think you know, this is down to the Brazilian government and wealthy Brazilians, who will always think very negatively of favelas and turn a blind eye to what's happening there. Or, the wealthy Brazilians don't help and the media doesn't help here and the government certainly doesn't help unfortunately. I always think that the work that I'm doing and the other tour guides here, we're really up against it trying to spread the good word of the favela because there's so much negative being put out on the TVs every single day by the media and stuff. So, it's hard, but you know, the people that come on the tours, they really do see the favela for what it is for the day. They always really, really enjoy it. They always love the place and a lot of them come back or even stay after the tour, because it is a very lovable place and a very misunderstood place. Which is why the tours are so important, actually, you know.
Abid Imam: I do love the Instagram photos you put on with each of the tour. The tourists that come out on your tour and you have Rocinha in the background, you're standing on the bridge. I sort of had to rub my eyes a few months ago when I saw that some of the famous footballers from the Australian Football League, Stephen Coniglio and Jon Patton were on one of your tours.
Jody King: That's right. Yeah, I didn't realize that they were famous or semi famous at the time. They told me that they played football, but I didn't really think too much of it. It was only after the tour that they followed Favela Phoenix on Instagram. So I followed them back and looked on their profile and realized that these guys had thousands and thousands of followers. And I realized then that they are actually pretty big footballers, which was great for the Favela Phoenix tour company because of course, they were posting photos of the tour on their social media, which of course thousands and thousands of people would have seen. So I remember I did have a couple of tourists come to me afterwards saying, Hey, we saw these guys come on a tour. They loved it, so we're coming on the tour. So I'm glad that they came because they certainly helped my project a little bit and got me a few more tourists.
Abid Imam: I'm really interested in where you stayed in particular have you always lived in the same dwelling in Rocinha or having you moved around? What's it like living at the top?
Jody King: I've moved around. I think I've lived in four different places. But I've always been at the top, in fact, in Vidigal favela I was at the top of there. I always seem to be at the top of the favelas. When I first came to Rocinha, I stayed with a friend to run a guesthouse and I stayed in his guest house for a couple of weeks, until I found an apartment which was a house share. And I went into the house share again, that was always going to be temporary until I found my own place. I wanted to take my time on finding my own place. Until I found the right place for me that I knew that I'd be happy to stay in for a very long time. So I ended up staying in the house for about two or three months. Then I found a beautiful two-bedroom place at the top again. But I then lived in for two and a half years. Great place. Nice big terraces with a nice fantastic view over the favela. I only moved from there actually to where I am now, because my school had to change locations, because the location my school was in, was being turned into a medical center. I had to find a new place in my school. I was then offered a building by a German guy who owns this beautiful big building at the highest part of Rocinha you can go to called Laborio, beautiful building, and he said "Look, I'm not living there. If you want your project there, you can have your project there and you can rent my apartment, you know the apartment's empty, rent the apartment and you can have your school underneath." So I thought you know it's fantastic because I'm living in the same building as my school now, which makes it so much easier to manage, so that's why I'm where I am now. I'm here now for about seven months.
Abid Imam: How does one purchase property in his Rocinha?
Jody King: It's actually pretty easy to purchase property. It's the same as anywhere now because, since the pacification in the favela, the best thing about it is that the people legally own their homes here now. So everyone has the deeds to their properties. So it's just like anywhere else in the world. You go through all the right paperwork to buy a place, and there's always a lot of places for sale and to rent here. People coming and going there's always a lot of movement, just like any other neighborhood. Some people change favelas a lot. You won't get many people leaving a favela and going to a nice neighborhood, but they certainly move favelas depending on their work or something. So houses become available quite a lot here actually, to rent and buy. And you go through the same process as you would anywhere else.
Abid Imam: You said that you've lived on the top, I'm just interested in accessibility, because of some of my own experiences going to a couple of different favelas within Rio de Janeiro, a couple of times when I've taken a taxi from the bottom, the taxi driver would not want to go to the top because of the amount of steepness and some of them just not willing to wear their cars on the cobblestone, so you have to take the motor taxi. How accessible is your place going up to the top?
Jody King: It's quite accessible. Actually, you can drive a car here which is rare. It's very rare to be able to drive the car to your place because most of it is alleyways and you can only get so near with a motorbike taxi. But my plate is pretty accessible actually. You can get here by car. I don't use a car, of course there's not much parking and cars are too expensive for me. I use the motor taxis everywhere and they're fantastic. They're good drivers. They get you for up and down pretty quickly. Yeah, the motor taxi will bring me like right outside my front door. So I always tend to walk down the favela when I need to get down, but I'll always take a motorbike taxi back up. There's no way I'm walking all the way up because it's a very difficult work.
Abid Imam: Definitely a good way to get the strong legs. I wanted to talk about your school and Favela Phoenix. How much does it mean to you and how did you conceive that idea and project?
Jody King: Well, I got the idea for the school when I went back to England for Christmas 2014, until January 2015. I was I was in my hometown. And it was one of my best friends actually in my hometown that gave me the idea. He said, "Look, why don't you start a project in the favela, because if you do, I will sponsor you each month. I'll give you a little bit of money each month to run a project." And he made me realize that it would be quite easy to find some sponsorships if I had a project there. And I thought it was a great idea. So I came back to Rio in January 2015. Planned the school and it took nine months to open. Initially, I remember I wanted to do a trade school because I used to work in construction in England. So something that I knew a bit about, but I realized that it would be too much hard work, too expensive to start a trade school and very difficult to find teachers to teach. So the next obvious thing was an English school. You know, it's very easy to set up, it's very easy to find teachers. Travelers that want to volunteer and teach. And it's important, you know, it's something that is very needed in Rio. So it took nine months to find a location, find equipment materials, find a teacher, find some students, and get it running. We opened in September 2015. 16 students to begin with one class a day. And it's slowly been growing over the last two and a half years now. Now we have over 100 students in three classes a day, children and adults. It's very popular in the community. One term last four months and every time a new term begins, it's always very full of classes, especially the beginner classes are very, very full because people want to learn it. The people here have a good drive and determination, they don't get a lot of opportunities of education, you know. The public school system here is not good. So they're not learning languages in public school. They don't learn geography, they don't learn history in the public schools. They're missing a lot of key subjects. So, any extra education that you can provide these people, they will snap it with both hands. They will take it because they know they need the opportunities to succeed and the people here want to better their lives you know, they want to work and get better jobs and become successful. So, yeah, my school is very popular now. They want to learn English.
Abid Imam: Are there any particular success stories that you've seen over the last few years that really stick out to you?
Jody King: Um, there's been a couple. There's been a lot of people actually that got jobs because they've learned English in my school. There was one girl that got a promotion, she already had a job, but she wanted this promotion. To get the promotion she had to speak English. She came to Favela Phoenix learned English and got the promotion and is now earning twice as much money. So yeah, I know of a lot of people that have that have gotten jobs because they've learned English as well. You know, it really is working for people. Yeah, which is which is fantastic to see, you know, really, really pleasing for me to see this.
Abid Imam: How are you sort of getting Favela Phoenix to take the next step now? I hear that there's some really fancy sort of fundraising. I just heard somewhere that was Amazon kayaking, is that true?
Jody King: Yeah, that's right. Well, that's not happening anymore. Actually, I planned on kayaking on the Amazon. I think I was planning on doing it next year. No, I was planning on doing it this year. But actually, I realized that I couldn't afford it because we would have had to have paid for a guide and that this trip would have been very, very expensive and I personally wouldn't have been able to afford it. But it's certainly something that I plan on doing in the future. You know, I plan on doing some fundraising events, but you know, anything like that is quite costly. I don't earn a lot of money, so I've got to do something within my budget. What I'll probably do this year is a Spartan Race. Something that's happening in Rio, it's 100 reais to enter. It's a crazy race with a lot of obstacles and I quite like this kind of thing. So I've done this before for to raise money, and I'll probably do this again this year. Last year, I cycled the river Danube through Europe, in Germany, through Austria, through Slovakia and ended in, in Hungary in Budapest with a few friends. I've done that with and that was fantastic. That raised a lot of money for the project. You know, as there's a team of us, we're all reaching out to our contacts, different people, and collectively it raised a really fantastic sum of money for the school. But of course, I can't do a big trip like this all the time. I can only work within my budget. But the kayaking on the Amazon is certainly something that that I will do in the future. For sure, these fundraising events, you know, it's fun for me because I get to travel, I get to keep fit. I like keeping fit, you know, cycling, kayaking. It's something that I enjoy doing, and it's hugely beneficial to my project. So it's really that big win-win situation. And I want to try and do one every year, for sure.
Abid Imam: Your team at Favela Phoenix, where do they hail from? Where do they come from around the world to help the people living in Rocinha?
Jody King: So we've got two long term teachers. Right now they're both girls, from one's from Switzerland and one's from Sweden. they've both been English teachers for a long time. They've got a lot of experience. And they live in here as well. They're both living in Rocinha. They love it here. We had another teacher from Switzerland in the past in fact, and we've used a lot of volunteers as well, from really all over the world. from Europe, from Asia, we've had volunteers from Australia, North America. Yeah, they're really from everywhere but our team right now is these two girls from Switzerland and Sweden teaching classes now. My dad helps a lot as well actually, from England because it's a UK based charity. So our bank account is based in England. My dad is the treasurer. He's in charge of the finances, which is fantastic for me because I would really hate to try and keep on top of that. He does that from England, which really helps me a lot. He's a big part of the team and works from England.
Abid Imam: How can people help you is it? Can they send things or is it purely financial assistance? What is going to help Favela Phoenix stay sustainable at this point in time?
Jody King: Yeah people can help in different ways really. Of course, coming on tours helps because 40% of the money from the tours goes straight into the school. Some people that come on tours, do bring some supplies. Some pens or workbooks or something. And financially, you know, we do have links on the website where people can make one off payments, or where people can set up monthly payments, sponsoring the fundraising events that come around once a year. So there's a few ways that people help
Abid Imam: These young people that you're helping teach and transform their lives, what have they actually taught you and your team in your life, how have they inspired you to continue?
Jody King: Um, yeah, just seeing how popular it is. inspires me because I know it's the right thing, because there's, there's a big demand for it. Like I mentioned, these people have a lot of drive and determination to learn, which inspires me to continue the project because I know it's the right thing. It's what the community needs. So it's very easy for me to have the inspiration here because it's all around you know. The people are very friendly. They're very thankful of what I'm doing. The project is popular. So yeah, I'm certainly inspired to continue the project.
Abid Imam: On the World Cup in the Olympics, which were multibillion dollar events put on at a time where it was politically very sensitive in Brazil. How has that legacy played out? And how has it inspired the next generation of leaders in the country and young people coming through?
Jody King: Actually, another attraction to me coming to Rio in 2013 was the World Cup and the Olympics coming here because I knew it'd be exciting time to live here. I love these events, especially the World Cup. And I loved here being here for it, absolutely loved it. But you know, the I don't think they should have been held here because it hasn't done the city any good. I mean, especially the Olympics, the state of Rio went bankrupt after the Olympics, which led to a lot of problems here in Rio, especially security problems, which led to a lot of violence. High levels of crime and violence, especially in the favela since the Olympics fully finished. I don't think these events have left anything positive behind in Rio. I don't think these events should be held in countries where they don't already have the infrastructure in place. Because when they're having to spend billions suddenly on these things, you know it that leads to so many problems. I've seen this afterwards. I don't think they should have happened here. As much as I enjoyed actually, being here during the event, the lasting effect is nothing positive actually, especially for the people in the favelas. They're the ones that really need this money to be spent in the right places on things like education, on health, basic sanitation, basic things, that places need. All these billions is being spent on these beautiful stadiums, which are now not being used at all. The money should be put in somewhere much better, that could really do so much good for not just the favelas, but the whole country you know. Living in the favelas and speaking to a lot of people, I've seen the frustration of what these events have brought. Which I completely understand from the favelas point of view.
Abid Imam: That increase in violence really reached a tipping point A few months ago, with the military of Rio taking control of security and police. How's that played out?
Jody King: Yeah, that's one of the lasting effects from the Olympics, because the state went bankrupt. They couldn't afford to pay the police or the pacifying police. So suddenly that a lot of police disappeared in Rio, which the gangs took advantage of. So the gangs suddenly become very visual. They were coming out in places that they weren't normally coming to before. They were normally staying pretty hidden but now they're not. The gangs are much more aggressive in coming out. It's just led to a lot more confrontations between police and gang. The violence has really spiked. Here in Rocinha we had a turf war in September 2017 because the police disappeared. So a rival gang took advantage of that. And then took over Rocinha. Hundreds of them arrived one day in the cars heavily armed and this community became a warzone. My school had to stay shut for six weeks. I couldn't do tours for six weeks. The places are so dangerous. It really was a war zone. The army came in here twice. At one point I walked down the main street of Rocinha and counted 12 tanks. It was really crazy, you know, and since then the violence has stayed very continuous. Happening all the time unfortunately. Much more than it was before September 2017 when this rival gang took over, which is sad to see you know because nobody likes this happening although the people are used to it, nobody likes this happening. More people are being killed in this. These young guys, the gang members, these are young guys aged 16 to 22 although they're gang members, it's terrible that they're being killed at a young age. A lot of these guys don't want to be gang members, they're doing it because they're poorly educated. They can't find any other work because of lack of opportunities here. They join a gang as a last resort. It's sad because the violence has spiked, especially in Rocinha which is frustrating for everyone and it's sad to see
Abid Imam: I am very mindful of your time. Firstly, we'll have a few more questions, Jodi as that's not a nice point to finish on. I wonder how your family feel about you being so far away and you being where you are. Have they come visited a few times. And how's that connection still going?
Jody King: Yes, they have. My parents have been here twice, and they're actually coming again in July. My sister is coming from Canada in July, and that'll be here first time here. They're happy that I'm here in Rio, because of what I went through in England with my ex fiancé. They knew that I was very depressed at the time and that I needed something. I needed to change my life and I needed to find happiness, which I really have found in Rio. I'm very, very happy, so they're happy that I'm happy. I think since September, and since the violence has spiked in the favela, I think they do worry more about me living in the favelas since September, because I do post news articles and I do post the occasional video of the sound of gunshots from my window, which gets my family a little bit worried. But they know that I'm happy they know that I'm not in any immediate danger, they know that the guns don't get pointed at me. I don't feel in danger here. And I think my family trust that I'm safe. I feel safe here. I'm pretty sure that I'm not going to go to any of these areas and I'm not going to get a stray bullet or anything like that. I've reassured my family that and I think they trust that. So they're happy that I'm here. They know that I'm helping the community a lot. They're very supportive of what I'm doing, my parents and my sister that they're giving money monthly to my project. They're very, very supportive. And yeah, they're happy with what I'm doing. They're happy that I'm happy.
Abid Imam: And lastly, what's it like going back home to England? Or if you call it home? But what's it like? What was it like going back the first time and seeing your friends and having that direct contrast?
Jody King: That's right. Yeah, it's actually very strange going back. It's like reverse culture shock, I believe it's called. I do get a culture shock going back to England now because I'm so used to life in Brazil now and the lifestyle of Brazil. But actually, I love going back, especially the last time I went back, because I went back with my girlfriend and it was her first trip outside of Brazil. It was fantastic being with her because of course, you know, everything's amazing to her, the food, the architecture, the way people behave, all these little things. I love going back because I forget how good the food is in England. The quality of food is fantastic there, it's great seeing friends and family again of course. And you know, even the little town that I'm from, when I lived there, it was always like the same thing every day. Nothing ever changed and it was kind of a boring life there in a small little town. Now when I go back once every two or three years it always seems to have changed a lot. I noticed a lot of changes, so it's always great going back and I do enjoy it. It's like a tourist in my own hometown again, you know, I do the touristy things and I enjoy going back for sure. Reverse culture shock. I prefer the culture of Brazil. I'm very happy. I love the lifestyle but you know, I always like going back and seeing friends and family and tasting those English foods again. It's nice.
Abid Imam: Well Jody, this has been nice. It's been it's been really, really interesting to talk to you and how can people find you on the interwebs? What are the links on the social medias that people should go and check out?
Jody King The social media you can find my project @FavelaPhoenix. All one word. Our website is www.favela phoenix.org where you can find more information about the tours and the project. Yeah, that's it. Look us up.
Abid Imam: Mate Absolute pleasure and hope we get to cross paths again.
Jody King: Pleasure talking to you. Thanks for thanks for inviting me. It's been a pleasure talking to you.